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everybody I have an interview coming up

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in just a minute with Annika Lucas who

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I'm still rattled by the story and have

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been ever since I recorded the interview

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sold into sex slavery at six years old

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by her mother horrific accounts that you

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can hear on YouTube I just don't feel

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the need to kind of drill her and make

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her replay all that especially when we

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had so many or more interesting things

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to talk about but you know she's a sex

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life six years old she's taken to a

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mansion at ten years old and put into a

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dungeon room and a dirty mattress and

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just raped by the highest level people

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in government if you think there's

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anything unreal about her story dig into

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it it's all just real it's just crazy

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of course these aren't really the

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questions that I'm interested in as you

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know my pursuit has been kind of this

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question of this extended consciousness

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realm and how that might be influencing

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what's going on so here are some clips

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from this delightful chat she really is

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an amazing person here are some clips

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how do you feel when people just deny it

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the collective denial is what is

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creating the evil at the moment things

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have definitely improved those people

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who are lashing out at me are just not

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looking so good anymore

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they're just not looking like the

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scientists versus me a crazy one it

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doesn't look that way at all I look like

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a sound solid person and they seem a

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little bit crazy I still have feelings

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about it I have feelings about what is

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happening in Belgium which is where I'm

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from when people found out that there

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was a network of politicians there that

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were involved in these extremely dark

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practices we went from the whole country

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being an uproar to eight years later one

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man convicted basically and the whole

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country completely silent about it after

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bodies of children were found he said

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when he was caught that he was a small

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cog in a giant wheel and that he had

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friends in high places who would protect

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him everything in that case that had

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anything to do with the existence of

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this network having any more prominent

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people involved was cut off from a case

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there's another kind of evil associated

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with that yes absolutely there's degrees

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to which people are too scared for their

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own skin you know for their job or for

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their life and that's fair that's

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totally fair understandable but it's

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fair but let's go back to the first part

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of your conversation for the deeper kind

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of growth for the soil it would be best

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that you that you do whatever it takes

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I'm more concerned with people who have

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little to lose but whose opinion is just

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biased because of the brainwashing that

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comes from those same people in power

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who are committing these facts that's a

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very secular view of things which is

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okay as far as it goes but what about

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russ dizdar he dabbled in the occult and

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now he spent the last thirty years

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working with victims of satanic ritual

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abuse so a lot of people don't like that

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satanic ritual abuse thing yes I'm a

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survivor of satanic ritual abuse that's

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what happens in the halls of power

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they're Satanists so yes that's what

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happens and I also work with people who

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like me have survived this stay with us

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for skeptic Oh

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[Music]

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welcome to skeptical where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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I'm your host Alex zakaris and if you've

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been following along for the last few

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episodes of skeptic oh you know that my

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journey into a deeper scientific

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understanding of consciousness and

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spirituality has led me to the question

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of evil the nature of evil what we're

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supposed to do about evil both

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personally and collectively so I want to

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put that out there because I want to

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know I want you to know where I'm coming

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from the show today is gonna be dark in

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a lot of ways heavy and it's not the

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direction that I want to go it's just

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the direction where this thing has taken

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me I know I'm preparing for this

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interview I was swamped with all sorts

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of emotions and I don't even have any

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direct connection with the experiences

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of today's guests Annika Lucas but then

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again you know maybe that's the real

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beauty of what Annika is doing with her

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work at liberation prison yoga and more

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broadly as an advocate for children that

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are subjected to the unimaginable

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horrors of sex crime sex trafficking

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ritual sex abuse and all that other

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stuff that we want to pretend doesn't

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really exist and isn't real

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so Annika thank you so much for joining

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me welcome to sceptical let's talk about

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yoga yes thank you for having me on

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I guess anyone's journey inward or a

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journey into the nature of reality would

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lead to the question of evil and I see

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evil very much in the way that it is

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described in the yoga scriptures that is

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to say I see evil as ignorance ignorance

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of the self you know I totally get that

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and I've had those kind of conversations

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before because I mentioned just in the

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few minutes a few seconds we chatted

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before the interview that I haven't

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really talked about yoga on this show

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and that's true for the most part I'm

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and I have 400 shows and most of them

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are on science in parapsychology and

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near-death experience and extended

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consciousness and things like that that

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people can kind of approach the question

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of consciousness from more of like I

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said kind of more of a guy kind of

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scientific but the things I deal with

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this people who want to deny there is

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this extended consciousness out there

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like Yogi's accept that as a given I

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mean it's part and parcel of what the

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yoga tradition is and if you read like

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autobiography of a yogi' I mean anyone

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who's ever read that book with him but

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there's first 30 pages there's

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shape-shifting animals teleportation

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telepathy all this stuff is just kind of

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a given so I think if there's a

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confusion when we talk about evil and

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it's reduced down to a confusion or you

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know in the Buddhist sense just kind of

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a misunderstanding I mean that's kind of

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like step three step one is it does

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exist and I guess I want to kind of

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circle back to that I mean that is evil

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right yeah well there's a lot of group

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that's to say that in our realm we all

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have it we all are ignorant of ourselves

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or we wouldn't even have to be

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so it's all a matter of degrees right

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everything is relative in our in our

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realm in this realm of duality

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everything's relative what I'm trying to

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kind of bring this back it exists and

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you cannot use yoga or spirituality to

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bypass the reality of what happens here

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on earth and I experienced what I I

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think of as some of the darkest

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experiences having to do with those who

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have the most power in the world who are

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literally ruling the world and what is

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actually going on in those strata of

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society because I think when you're

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talking about that you're almost jumping

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ahead to a fantastic part of the story

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would you do you want to hear do you

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want me to tell your your audience what

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happened to me

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not not right yet because I think it

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feels so it feels so yucky that you have

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to go and you know bear witness to it in

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that way

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so let me continue with this we're just

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having a chat here yeah well when you

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frame it in that way I feel like you're

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jumping to the healing part of the story

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which is a magnificent part of your

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story is your healing journey and and

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the deeper understanding that you've

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come to regarding the transformation

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that you went through and the horrors

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that you endured and how you overcame

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those and were victorious over those but

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I guess and the answers that this

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yielded this 30 year journey inward the

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answers that this yielded as to how to

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move forward and to change the power

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paradigm to move out of this very dark

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place that we're in right now there's my

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my two cents are in there too yeah

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that's good keep throwing in your two

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cents cuz I can talk a lot and that

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doesn't always work so well but I'm

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to anchor this like with one of the

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first shows that I did that that kind of

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solidified this for me as I interviewed

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a 20 year FBI guy his last job was

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undercover with the man-boy love

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Association front fake organization fake

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political organization for organized

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ring of pedophiles right so he was

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indignant because he had entered into

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this realm that he didn't really even

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know existed totally and the horrors

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that he saw as an undercover guide where

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he had to kind of rub shoulders with

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these people from the outside he was

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stunned and on the show you could see

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his anger in his frustration and that's

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something that you know that a lot of

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people can identify with but there's

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also this element that I've been

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encountered on this show of complete

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denial that so I'm just trying to paint

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the whole thing here

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I loved it the recovery and the victory

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but how do you feel when when you have

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to and that's why I guess I didn't want

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you to jump in and talk about your story

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right from the beginning because how do

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you feel when people just deny it or

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don't don't believe you or don't believe

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other people or don't because they don't

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believe that this could really be

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happening at the level that you're

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talking about I mean you get that right

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absolutely and I think the the

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collective denial is what is creating

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the evil at the moment I didn't even

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speak out publicly about my past until I

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felt ready emotionally to withstand the

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personal the inevitable personal attacks

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the disbelief that you know let's just

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say that when we're speaking of

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ignorance that there's just a lot

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there's a lot out there not as much as I

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expected or maybe you know the time when

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I started speaking out just things have

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definitely improved those people who are

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lashing out at me are just not looking

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so

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anymore they're just not looking like

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the scientists versus me crazy one it

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doesn't look that way at all I look like

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a sound solid person and they seem a

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little bit crazy I still have feelings

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about it I have feelings about what is

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happening in Belgium which is where I'm

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from

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when people found out that there was a

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network of politicians there that were

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involved in these extremely dark

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practices through the dutroux case in 96

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we went from the whole country being an

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uproar and the international press

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writing about the Belgian pedophile

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network of VIPs - eight years later one

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man convicted basically and the whole

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country completely silent about it after

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bodies of children were found and so

274
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:33,040
yeah let's just review that case for

275
00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:36,370
people who don't know I mean here's the

276
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:38,140
case like for people who are in that

277
00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:41,530
denial mode we there's photographs right

278
00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:44,500
there's photographs of cages there's

279
00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:47,980
photographs oh my - builds dungeons to

280
00:13:57,150 --> 00:13:50,470
keep the children in but he said when he

281
00:13:59,370 --> 00:13:57,160
was caught that he was working then he

282
00:14:01,920 --> 00:13:59,380
was a small cog in a giant wheel and

283
00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:01,930
that he had friends in high places who

284
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:09,310
would protect him and then everything in

285
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:13,330
that case that had anything to do with

286
00:14:19,410 --> 00:14:16,570
the existence of this network having any

287
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:19,420
more prominent people involved was cut

288
00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:23,370
off from a case and many people died

289
00:14:32,540 --> 00:14:25,750
mysteriously who had any kind of

290
00:14:38,940 --> 00:14:35,340
there's material out there but it's all

291
00:14:40,740 --> 00:14:38,950
been suppressed and people who believed

292
00:14:42,980 --> 00:14:40,750
there was more to the story were labeled

293
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:42,990
believers in Belgium

294
00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:46,740
and treated us stupid and it was the

295
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:49,350
intellectuals or anyone who wants to

296
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:52,050
think of themselves as smart that

297
00:14:58,880 --> 00:14:55,890
labeled the the other survivor who spoke

298
00:15:03,970 --> 00:14:58,890
up at the time as a crazy woman

299
00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:06,470
sided with the official story even the

300
00:15:14,050 --> 00:15:08,700
smart people ended up siding with the

301
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:14,060
official story and ridiculing anyone who

302
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:18,510
thought there might be more to it so you

303
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:22,560
know i'm stumbling here to even approach

304
00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:25,770
this because there's there's a million

305
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:27,899
different questions one how did that

306
00:15:32,810 --> 00:15:31,050
affect you at the time when that story

307
00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:32,820
broke and i guess the real cut that's

308
00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:34,020
not really the question I want to ask

309
00:15:38,510 --> 00:15:35,550
that's like a fake question that I was

310
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:38,520
going to ask is you know when we talk

311
00:15:47,530 --> 00:15:43,110
about the nature of evil we understand

312
00:15:50,630 --> 00:15:47,540
that sometimes we go along with things

313
00:15:53,860 --> 00:15:50,640
that we shouldn't go along with and

314
00:15:56,690 --> 00:15:53,870
that's what you're referring to if you

315
00:15:58,760 --> 00:15:56,700
just for the protection you could

316
00:16:00,920 --> 00:15:58,770
rationalize it for the protection of my

317
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:00,930
family well for the protection my family

318
00:16:06,050 --> 00:16:04,170
I couldn't expose that person for the

319
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:06,060
protection of myself for the protection

320
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:10,890
of my life I couldn't what there's an

321
00:16:15,290 --> 00:16:13,290
there's another kind of evil associated

322
00:16:18,199 --> 00:16:15,300
with that too and I know you've thought

323
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:18,209
about yes absolutely there's degrees to

324
00:16:23,730 --> 00:16:20,970
which people are too scared simply but

325
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:23,740
then there is

326
00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:26,050
in the public opinion I think which is a

327
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:27,670
larger component I mean there's people

328
00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:29,410
who know and who don't say anything

329
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:31,350
because they're too scared for their own

330
00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:33,970
skin you know for their job or for their

331
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:36,460
life and that's fair

332
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:39,730
that's totally fair understandable but

333
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:42,130
then it's understandable but but is it

334
00:16:48,060 --> 00:16:46,930
is it it's fair but in terms of go but

335
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:48,070
let's go back to the first part of your

336
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:49,690
conversation for the deeper kind of

337
00:16:57,090 --> 00:16:53,050
growth for the for our soul can our soul

338
00:17:00,090 --> 00:16:57,100
fully grow for the soul it would be best

339
00:17:02,130 --> 00:17:00,100
that you that you do whatever it takes I

340
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:02,140
mean within reason of course

341
00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:05,730
you don't just throw your life away and

342
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:09,130
no one look you know for nothing but

343
00:17:16,940 --> 00:17:13,050
within reason to do what is right is

344
00:17:22,050 --> 00:17:16,950
important and then you can die free I

345
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:22,060
think and then you've you you you have

346
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:27,250
not committed evil but what is the right

347
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:29,770
thing you know it requires a lot of

348
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:31,600
courage right now to speak up about

349
00:17:36,050 --> 00:17:35,050
these things and of course it's cost a

350
00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:36,060
lot of lives

351
00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:40,750
so I'm more concerned with people who

352
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:44,920
have little to lose but whose opinion is

353
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:49,570
just biased because of the brainwashing

354
00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:52,240
that comes from those same people in

355
00:17:59,580 --> 00:17:56,520
power who are committing these acts and

356
00:18:01,740 --> 00:17:59,590
I found that the more someone is

357
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:01,750
brainwashed that's to say the more that

358
00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:05,530
you accept the values of the

359
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:09,070
materialistic society of our capitalist

360
00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:11,200
society the more you accept the values

361
00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:16,180
of the external the more it actually

362
00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:20,560
seems to imply that trauma personal

363
00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:24,790
trauma remains covered and so healing

364
00:18:29,310 --> 00:18:27,310
from trauma from for each person

365
00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:29,320
individually I don't think you can live

366
00:18:35,490 --> 00:18:31,750
in this vertical power paradigm without

367
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:35,500
having some trauma at this time so it is

368
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:37,170
for each person to look with

369
00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:42,090
and to heal as an active revolution and

370
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:45,630
of course it is healing healing requires

371
00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:49,410
courage just as on a personal level you

372
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:52,020
have your idea of what your childhood

373
00:18:55,310 --> 00:18:53,850
was like and you have a relationship

374
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:55,320
with your parents and then you start

375
00:18:58,760 --> 00:18:57,570
going within and therapy and you realize

376
00:19:02,540 --> 00:18:58,770
that what you thought

377
00:19:03,380 --> 00:19:02,550
your childhood was is so far from what

378
00:19:07,730 --> 00:19:03,390
it actually was

379
00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:07,740
and you changed and it's the same at the

380
00:19:16,420 --> 00:19:13,230
world it measures a new change and as

381
00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:16,430
you change and as your consciousness

382
00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:20,280
expands by the neural integration of all

383
00:19:26,450 --> 00:19:23,190
the different parts that were

384
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:26,460
emotionally stunted during these moments

385
00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:30,000
of trauma or unmet emotional needs all

386
00:19:36,350 --> 00:19:32,580
these parts need to find this reflection

387
00:19:38,780 --> 00:19:36,360
of their their innate innocence their

388
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:38,790
innate purity going back to the

389
00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:41,780
beginning and through these reflections

390
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:45,270
we integrate the self and we literally

391
00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:48,450
create within our own body mind system

392
00:19:53,030 --> 00:19:49,380
and

393
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:53,040
a more egalitarian structure that makes

394
00:19:59,720 --> 00:19:55,110
us and less dependent on the outer

395
00:20:02,540 --> 00:19:59,730
values there's a lot that you covered

396
00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:02,550
there and if people I will play some

397
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:06,260
clips into this show when I air it and

398
00:20:13,340 --> 00:20:09,690
you have a very powerful testimony as to

399
00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:13,350
what exactly happened to you and it's

400
00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:16,140
something that has gotten some traction

401
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:18,120
there's a half a million views of it

402
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:20,760
which i think is fantastic in one way

403
00:20:25,370 --> 00:20:22,290
and that people are able to sit there

404
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:25,380
and watch your horrific testimony of

405
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,850
what happened to you and they're able to

406
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:28,320
sit through it and five hundred thousand

407
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:30,600
people are willing to do that awesome

408
00:20:37,820 --> 00:20:34,130
TED talk you gave very popular very

409
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,830
revealing and very open on your part I

410
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:39,600
can play those in and I think that's

411
00:20:44,180 --> 00:20:41,850
almost a better way than to have you sit

412
00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:44,190
in recount what happened to you so I

413
00:20:48,170 --> 00:20:45,630
want to switch back to what you just

414
00:20:49,870 --> 00:20:48,180
said though in terms of the vertical

415
00:20:52,510 --> 00:20:49,880
power paradigm

416
00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:52,520
I think there's so much that you're

417
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:55,550
throwing out and it's it's wonderful in

418
00:20:59,080 --> 00:20:57,410
a way that it kind of requires us to

419
00:21:01,630 --> 00:20:59,090
kind of connect the dots of the

420
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:01,640
mind-body problem and the neural

421
00:21:06,250 --> 00:21:04,640
integration and the the transformation

422
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:06,260
that we go through and I understand it

423
00:21:11,470 --> 00:21:08,810
from a yogic perspective kind of even

424
00:21:13,870 --> 00:21:11,480
differently than maybe other people are

425
00:21:15,730 --> 00:21:13,880
taking that but I want to go back and

426
00:21:20,050 --> 00:21:15,740
pick up on a very basic thing you said

427
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:20,060
in this power structure that is

428
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:23,120
responsible for perpetrating these sex

429
00:21:29,890 --> 00:21:26,720
crimes against children is also there to

430
00:21:32,650 --> 00:21:29,900
influence the message that it gets

431
00:21:35,050 --> 00:21:32,660
reflected back so the reason this stuff

432
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:35,060
doesn't get through to the media the

433
00:21:39,490 --> 00:21:37,700
reason that if you look up the reality

434
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:39,500
of these crimes on Google the first

435
00:21:45,580 --> 00:21:42,080
twenty pages you'll get is about hoaxes

436
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:45,590
it's part of the system I mean it is

437
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:48,320
baked into the system to make us do it

438
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:50,720
I've had interviews with academics who

439
00:21:57,630 --> 00:21:54,190
deny the existence of even a

440
00:22:01,710 --> 00:21:57,640
consciousness that could contemplate

441
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:01,720
this and especially in academia

442
00:22:07,060 --> 00:22:04,490
unfortunately because the education the

443
00:22:12,780 --> 00:22:07,070
halls of education really are a perfect

444
00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:12,790
brainwashing tool so I was abused by

445
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:15,950
world leaders at the time in the late

446
00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:19,370
60s early 70s as I was a child sex slave

447
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:22,190
and one of those abusers was someone who

448
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,000
influenced politicians so was in a way

449
00:22:30,340 --> 00:22:28,640
above the politicians and was sort of

450
00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:30,350
behind the scenes not completely but

451
00:22:35,530 --> 00:22:33,320
influencing you know had presidents in

452
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:35,540
their pocket let's put it that way in

453
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:43,110
also had major newspapers in their

454
00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:47,350
pockets controlling the narrative that

455
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:50,680
goes out that is the narrative of the

456
00:22:53,919 --> 00:22:52,210
media that is the narrative of

457
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:53,929
Hollywood's

458
00:23:04,029 --> 00:22:56,480
and there is so much brainwashing that

459
00:23:06,999 --> 00:23:04,039
is spinning a story that makes those in

460
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:07,009
power look like they deserve their

461
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:09,130
positions

462
00:23:16,770 --> 00:23:14,050
when in fact everyone knows that that's

463
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:16,780
not accurate everyone knows that we vote

464
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:20,080
for someone one of two people and then

465
00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:22,690
whoever becomes president we know that

466
00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:25,300
they're not going to do what we want

467
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:28,360
them to do we know that we know that

468
00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:31,840
politicians are corrupt but we don't

469
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:35,230
want to contemplate that what that

470
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:37,810
actually means this corruption and the

471
00:23:44,340 --> 00:23:40,720
fact that these people are lifting

472
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:44,350
themselves above us and that we are

473
00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:46,770
participating by giving away our power

474
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:49,420
by looking up to certain people that are

475
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:51,130
about if we're looking down on them

476
00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:52,290
we're giving them all this attention

477
00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:54,910
we're not taking matters in our own

478
00:23:59,820 --> 00:23:57,520
hands we're not making sure that our

479
00:24:02,940 --> 00:23:59,830
politicians are doing what we need them

480
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:02,950
to do we are not truly fighting for the

481
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:04,650
peace that we all want

482
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:07,210
well Chanukah I mean part of the tough

483
00:24:14,670 --> 00:24:09,850
part there is to truly accept the

484
00:24:18,050 --> 00:24:14,680
reality that you're exposing makes us

485
00:24:20,790 --> 00:24:18,060
pretty helpless to put that back in in a

486
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:20,800
political framework it is I mean it's

487
00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:25,870
it's it's inconceivable well I think for

488
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:28,750
anyone it's it's inconceivable to me to

489
00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:32,230
think that politically I could change

490
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:35,320
the kind of system that has amassed the

491
00:24:39,450 --> 00:24:37,360
kind of power that you're exposing

492
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:39,460
that's just a reality I mean I'm just

493
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:42,790
pragmatic I'm a yes it's a I've been

494
00:24:47,630 --> 00:24:45,130
successful I know how to be successful I

495
00:24:50,910 --> 00:24:47,640
know how to accomplish great things

496
00:24:53,940 --> 00:24:50,920
materially but III don't know how to I

497
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:53,950
and from that perspective I say no ug

498
00:24:59,100 --> 00:24:57,250
you can't win that game and I almost you

499
00:25:02,070 --> 00:24:59,110
know I like the way you shifted it

500
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:02,080
before it the only understanding that I

501
00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:05,470
can come to it is some kind of spiritual

502
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:09,060
understanding that I need to overcome

503
00:25:13,890 --> 00:25:11,440
and I forget how you put it but you put

504
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:13,900
it quite brilliantly and beautifully

505
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:18,010
that the personal battle of trauma of

506
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:21,250
overcoming of understanding my deeper

507
00:25:25,490 --> 00:25:22,770
spirituality is real

508
00:25:28,790 --> 00:25:25,500
the only way to win the larger battle

509
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:28,800
how did you say it yes sort of like that

510
00:25:34,670 --> 00:25:31,710
I just want to address briefly the word

511
00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:34,680
helplessness because I understand that

512
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:38,760
when I speak it is harder generally I've

513
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:43,050
noticed for men who are more brainwashed

514
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:45,480
than women to shoot into action and do

515
00:25:50,270 --> 00:25:48,210
something right away to to create a

516
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:50,280
change you know to go save the children

517
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:54,480
it's so upsetting to find out that this

518
00:26:00,020 --> 00:25:56,250
is the reality and that someone you may

519
00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:00,030
have voted for may be a pedophile that's

520
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:03,230
someone you liked and that you were

521
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:06,810
fooled then and that you were wrong it's

522
00:26:13,820 --> 00:26:10,890
hard to admit that it's hard to assume

523
00:26:16,340 --> 00:26:13,830
that anyone who's made it to the top is

524
00:26:18,380 --> 00:26:16,350
so compromised that there's no way that

525
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:18,390
they're not involved in something very

526
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:22,410
dark so to accept it it's very difficult

527
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:24,390
and men have a harder time with it I

528
00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:27,570
found generally than women because of

529
00:26:32,780 --> 00:26:30,120
the privilege you know the more

530
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:32,790
privilege you have the easier it is to

531
00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:35,850
avoid looking at you know dark realities

532
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:38,460
and that's part of the system the

533
00:26:45,050 --> 00:26:43,200
privilege works as a cushion and it's

534
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:45,060
also at the expense of those who have

535
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:47,130
less privilege so those with the least

536
00:26:53,390 --> 00:26:49,890
privilege or sort of carrying all the

537
00:26:57,410 --> 00:26:53,400
pain that those at the very top of this

538
00:27:00,200 --> 00:26:57,420
power paradigm are not feeling at all so

539
00:27:04,250 --> 00:27:00,210
I have to address psychopathy a little

540
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,260
bit because it's difficult for most of

541
00:27:10,190 --> 00:27:06,960
us to understand what psychopathy is

542
00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:10,200
it's difficult to accept that people

543
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:12,590
that look really good and have a good

544
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:17,490
feel would actually be raping children I

545
00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:20,730
mean it's so dark most of us can't

546
00:27:26,510 --> 00:27:24,750
imagine what getting anywhere near a

547
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:26,520
child like that we can't imagine it and

548
00:27:32,510 --> 00:27:29,250
so well they can't imagine in your case

549
00:27:35,450 --> 00:27:32,520
a parent who begins sexually molesting

550
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:35,460
their child at the deadline of the

551
00:27:38,670 --> 00:27:36,850
youngest of age and then

552
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:38,680
sells them into sex slavery at six years

553
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:40,960
old that's inconceivable people can

554
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:42,490
really can't wrap their head around that

555
00:27:48,780 --> 00:27:46,180
but right exactly that sickness that

556
00:27:51,170 --> 00:27:48,790
degree of sickness but my mother I would

557
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:51,180
say is easier to accept because she's

558
00:27:58,650 --> 00:27:54,490
she's just a sick person that was never

559
00:28:00,390 --> 00:27:58,660
found out but she's a regular person you

560
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:00,400
know you could find her image in one of

561
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:02,770
those sensational stories let's say that

562
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,370
we see every day in the news but when

563
00:28:12,420 --> 00:28:09,520
it's someone who is a trusted figure at

564
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:12,430
the top of the power paradigm that is

565
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:14,110
much harder because we have some kind of

566
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:16,210
relationship with this person because

567
00:28:21,390 --> 00:28:18,880
we've seen them on TV or we've you know

568
00:28:23,070 --> 00:28:21,400
we've listened to their speeches and

569
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:23,080
we've maybe been moved by their words

570
00:28:30,390 --> 00:28:27,010
and to accept that someone like that is

571
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:30,400
also engaging in you know like my mother

572
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:34,480
I only had power over me so in that she

573
00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:38,080
was you know at her worst but those

574
00:28:43,650 --> 00:28:39,760
people have power over the entire world

575
00:28:46,290 --> 00:28:43,660
and so if we want to wonder why there is

576
00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:46,300
no peace on earth yet when everybody

577
00:28:53,550 --> 00:28:48,760
really wants it just look at the power

578
00:28:57,060 --> 00:28:53,560
structure and again it's hard for us to

579
00:28:58,500 --> 00:28:57,070
to imagine that someone can actually be

580
00:29:00,150 --> 00:28:58,510
that way we can - Matt you can't imagine

581
00:29:01,890 --> 00:29:00,160
that a mother would do that you can't

582
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:01,900
imagine that someone you might have

583
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:04,720
voted for would do that but that is what

584
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:06,970
because we don't really understand see

585
00:29:14,739 --> 00:29:11,330
we are all about reason

586
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:14,749
we're all about reason and we like to

587
00:29:21,009 --> 00:29:18,129
take things from the physical world and

588
00:29:23,979 --> 00:29:21,019
you know use evidence and so forth

589
00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:23,989
and we are actually moving in a

590
00:29:30,850 --> 00:29:28,340
different era right now we're feeling we

591
00:29:33,729 --> 00:29:30,860
we generally as a people we do not

592
00:29:40,509 --> 00:29:33,739
understand feeling at all I have spent

593
00:29:43,629 --> 00:29:40,519
thirty years going through my past to

594
00:29:46,509 --> 00:29:43,639
reconnect all the reactions and feelings

595
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:46,519
and physical reactions that have to be

596
00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:49,850
suppressed from the incident suppressed

597
00:29:53,950 --> 00:29:51,320
because they couldn't be expressed

598
00:29:57,549 --> 00:29:53,960
during the incidents the traumatic

599
00:30:02,950 --> 00:29:57,559
incident because I had to survive in

600
00:30:07,859 --> 00:30:02,960
reuniting the suppressed feelings and

601
00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:07,869
reactions with their original cause or

602
00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:12,409
psychological cause consciousness

603
00:30:18,030 --> 00:30:15,950
expands and it is a work of increasing

604
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:18,040
feeling that is

605
00:30:23,710 --> 00:30:21,520
one with consciousness feeling

606
00:30:26,830 --> 00:30:23,720
increasing your knowledge of feeling it

607
00:30:31,330 --> 00:30:26,840
is a a science that is not rooted in the

608
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:31,340
physical and so it's easy in our world

609
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:34,670
to dismiss it because of this horrendous

610
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:38,570
imbalance that we have with the you know

611
00:30:45,670 --> 00:30:42,770
preponderance focus on reason as a more

612
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:45,680
valid than feeling but in fact they work

613
00:30:52,690 --> 00:30:49,810
together we can't really you know a

614
00:30:55,330 --> 00:30:52,700
psychopath is someone who can especially

615
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:55,340
a very successful one is someone whose

616
00:31:01,000 --> 00:30:58,010
reason works very well but in fact

617
00:31:03,420 --> 00:31:01,010
they're completely insane and so this

618
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:03,430
reason and all this intelligence is used

619
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:09,760
to hide the insanity the insanity comes

620
00:31:17,310 --> 00:31:15,170
from trauma from very early trauma from

621
00:31:20,830 --> 00:31:17,320
not getting a reflection of the self

622
00:31:24,090 --> 00:31:20,840
sure maybe I'm sure that that's part of

623
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:24,100
it and I just sometimes wondered that

624
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:28,610
talking about Psychopaths which is you

625
00:31:33,730 --> 00:31:30,410
know a popular thing to talk about

626
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:33,740
if that doesn't deflect away from the

627
00:31:37,030 --> 00:31:35,570
larger part of the consciousness

628
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,040
question so let me tell you a little bit

629
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:39,200
about my journey as I just told you you

630
00:31:43,150 --> 00:31:41,330
know in the show I bet not my personal

631
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:43,160
journey but so I'm interested in

632
00:31:48,010 --> 00:31:45,050
big-picture questions who are we why are

633
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:48,020
we here so I'm interested in why science

634
00:31:53,050 --> 00:31:50,960
insists that we are merely biological

635
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:53,060
robots and meaningless universe and that

636
00:31:57,940 --> 00:31:55,760
this consciousness is an illusion there

637
00:31:59,800 --> 00:31:57,950
is no good or bad there because there is

638
00:32:04,750 --> 00:31:59,810
no consciousness really it's just we're

639
00:32:06,460 --> 00:32:04,760
biological robots I go that seems that's

640
00:32:08,350 --> 00:32:06,470
absurd it's absurd

641
00:32:11,380 --> 00:32:08,360
you know it's it's no one has thought

642
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:11,390
that throughout time no one 90% of

643
00:32:15,940 --> 00:32:13,610
ephone planet but that is consistently

644
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:15,950
is the message the the paradigm that

645
00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:17,840
science operates in and if people don't

646
00:32:20,770 --> 00:32:19,460
accept that they just have to go look at

647
00:32:22,860 --> 00:32:20,780
science and that's what science says

648
00:32:24,850 --> 00:32:22,870
that's what neuroscientists that's what

649
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:24,860
psychiatry says that's what it's built

650
00:32:29,890 --> 00:32:27,530
on right and you'll find exceptions

651
00:32:31,650 --> 00:32:29,900
people who are on the fringes of that

652
00:32:34,770 --> 00:32:31,660
but that's mostly so then

653
00:32:37,020 --> 00:32:34,780
next part of my journey was to say okay

654
00:32:38,780 --> 00:32:37,030
there is a reality to consciousness

655
00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:38,790
that's pretty easy to establish

656
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:41,580
scientifically is there a reality to

657
00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:44,050
extended consciousness we hear about

658
00:32:49,230 --> 00:32:46,990
spirits demons angels God all this good

659
00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:49,240
stuff is that is there any reality to

660
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:50,740
that we really have to look no further

661
00:32:55,710 --> 00:32:53,050
than the near-death experience science

662
00:32:58,590 --> 00:32:55,720
and others over 200 peer-reviewed papers

663
00:33:01,260 --> 00:32:58,600
of people who have survived bodily death

664
00:33:02,850 --> 00:33:01,270
and have entered some extended realm and

665
00:33:05,070 --> 00:33:02,860
we know that they really have survived

666
00:33:07,290 --> 00:33:05,080
bodily death and that consciousness as

667
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:07,300
we normally understood it required a

668
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:09,010
brain and these people no longer have

669
00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:10,720
that brain function as we understand it

670
00:33:15,660 --> 00:33:13,180
and yet they're able to access it again

671
00:33:18,060 --> 00:33:15,670
for Yogi's like you and I it's like of

672
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:18,070
course remember I read autobiography of

673
00:33:21,420 --> 00:33:19,840
a yogi' and I've been on the mat for 30

674
00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:21,430
years and I've seen the whole thing I

675
00:33:27,030 --> 00:33:23,920
know it but if I have to prove it that's

676
00:33:29,310 --> 00:33:27,040
where I'd go to point to prove it so the

677
00:33:30,740 --> 00:33:29,320
part that kind of concerns me a little

678
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:30,750
bit when we start talking about

679
00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:34,090
Psychopaths is it's a way that

680
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:36,070
potentially that we shut ourselves off

681
00:33:40,350 --> 00:33:38,830
from the extended consciousness room now

682
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:40,360
I just interviewed a guy a couple days

683
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:42,880
ago russ dizdar and i really enjoyed

684
00:33:46,830 --> 00:33:44,530
talking to him and he's all about

685
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:46,840
satanic ritual abuse he's a Christian

686
00:33:51,690 --> 00:33:49,120
he's an evangelical I am NOT a Christian

687
00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:51,700
and I have a I don't really understand

688
00:33:58,860 --> 00:33:55,630
the evangelical vibe but yet he's at

689
00:34:01,650 --> 00:33:58,870
least in some respects I admire that

690
00:34:03,740 --> 00:34:01,660
he's at least engaging with although in

691
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:03,750
a very narrowly defined way an

692
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:06,490
understanding of how this extended realm

693
00:34:12,419 --> 00:34:09,970
might be working with the realm that is

694
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:12,429
the physical realm because we know if we

695
00:34:18,690 --> 00:34:16,210
want to go find a despicable evil people

696
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:18,700
who do horrible things we can find them

697
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:22,810
in any tone because I speak about

698
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:25,990
Psychopaths because the psychopaths that

699
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:28,240
I dealt with we're ruling the world and

700
00:34:38,369 --> 00:34:31,919
are influencing the entire worlds and

701
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:38,379
they were emotionally infantile so they

702
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:40,450
were extremely smart people emotionally

703
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:42,970
infantile who are influencing the entire

704
00:34:50,099 --> 00:34:45,609
world so why

705
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:50,109
of course science will be given so much

706
00:34:56,569 --> 00:34:53,049
more importance and of course those

707
00:35:02,609 --> 00:34:56,579
scientists who hold those narrow views

708
00:35:05,690 --> 00:35:02,619
will get more screen time but it's

709
00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:05,700
important that will stand psychopathy

710
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:08,049
because those are the people that are

711
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:12,249
influencing us all day long and I want

712
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:18,609
to and we are blind blinded by the

713
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:21,430
reason so that we see someone who seems

714
00:35:27,259 --> 00:35:24,640
perfectly reasonable but is emotionally

715
00:35:29,970 --> 00:35:27,269
infantile and because we have not done

716
00:35:32,450 --> 00:35:29,980
the emotional work on ourselves we have

717
00:35:37,739 --> 00:35:32,460
not done the trauma work on ourselves

718
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:37,749
we're not able to see that and this is

719
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:39,910
what I wanted to say is this journey of

720
00:35:48,180 --> 00:35:46,450
mine into my own psyche through healing

721
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:48,190
from that childhood trauma

722
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:51,249
it's a spiritual journey there is no way

723
00:35:58,229 --> 00:35:55,450
that you can return to a moment trauma

724
00:36:01,769 --> 00:35:58,239
is fear of fear death yes fearing fear

725
00:36:04,859 --> 00:36:01,779
of losing the physical body and to heat

726
00:36:09,089 --> 00:36:04,869
you you need to emotionally return to

727
00:36:11,970 --> 00:36:09,099
that moment with some faith that this

728
00:36:17,690 --> 00:36:11,980
time you'll survive or you can never

729
00:36:22,650 --> 00:36:17,700
return so anybody who is one of those

730
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:22,660
psychopathic power addicts has never had

731
00:36:28,049 --> 00:36:25,170
courage has never had the courage to

732
00:36:32,789 --> 00:36:28,059
return to any of their personal trauma

733
00:36:34,819 --> 00:36:32,799
however small or it may see they run

734
00:36:39,349 --> 00:36:34,829
they will keep running away from it and

735
00:36:44,910 --> 00:36:39,359
that worldview from someone who is

736
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:44,920
traumatized and basically only has the

737
00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:48,130
physical world to give themselves some

738
00:36:55,319 --> 00:36:51,190
kind of self sense of self the more

739
00:36:57,390 --> 00:36:55,329
you're attached to external things to

740
00:36:59,310 --> 00:36:57,400
define yourself the more psychopathic

741
00:37:02,340 --> 00:36:59,320
you are if you

742
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:02,350
at a psychopath you know they are the

743
00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:06,370
ones who just get rid of the people

744
00:37:15,569 --> 00:37:12,559
without any concept you know without any

745
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:15,579
sense of humanity for the people that

746
00:37:20,970 --> 00:37:17,710
they step over or they kill on their way

747
00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:20,980
up and brown-nosing to people above them

748
00:37:25,769 --> 00:37:22,920
and putting down people below them

749
00:37:27,809 --> 00:37:25,779
that's a very secular view of things

750
00:37:28,620 --> 00:37:27,819
which is okay as far as it goes but what

751
00:37:31,380 --> 00:37:28,630
about Russ

752
00:37:33,539 --> 00:37:31,390
what about russ dizdar he dabbled in the

753
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:33,549
occult and now he spent the last thirty

754
00:37:38,279 --> 00:37:36,160
years working with victims of satanic

755
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:38,289
ritual abuse so a lot of people don't

756
00:37:45,539 --> 00:37:40,930
like that satanic ritual abuse thing I

757
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:45,549
I think it's undeniable these extended

758
00:37:51,150 --> 00:37:48,970
realms that are influencing this realm

759
00:37:55,019 --> 00:37:51,160
and I don't want to go there and pack it

760
00:37:57,269 --> 00:37:55,029
into a very narrow biblical definition

761
00:37:59,760 --> 00:37:57,279
because I don't think that fits that

762
00:38:01,799 --> 00:37:59,770
doesn't fit with with everything I know

763
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:01,809
but I don't want to deny it and talk

764
00:38:06,779 --> 00:38:04,240
about this in terms of secular

765
00:38:08,849 --> 00:38:06,789
Psychopaths the people not getting their

766
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:08,859
needs met it is that it is the way in

767
00:38:14,849 --> 00:38:11,710
which each each one of us can make a

768
00:38:16,890 --> 00:38:14,859
difference yes I'm a survivor of satanic

769
00:38:21,630 --> 00:38:16,900
ritual abuse that's what happens in the

770
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:21,640
halls of power they're Satanists so yes

771
00:38:27,859 --> 00:38:24,240
that's what happens and I also work with

772
00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:27,869
people who like me have survived this

773
00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:31,089
that's most of my work now is working

774
00:38:35,339 --> 00:38:33,369
with survivors and many of them are

775
00:38:38,460 --> 00:38:35,349
survivors of said how do we unpack the

776
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:38,470
Satanic part of that for you and I I

777
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:40,510
mean that's not your I don't think

778
00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:42,490
that's your focus it's not my focus

779
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:45,460
either but we have to deal with with

780
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:47,680
with some reality there in a way that

781
00:38:51,779 --> 00:38:49,510
people can also wrap their heads around

782
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:51,789
that and not just from the secular

783
00:38:58,319 --> 00:38:55,690
psychology standpoint but I see it that

784
00:39:01,680 --> 00:38:58,329
way because it fits the trauma pattern

785
00:39:05,220 --> 00:39:01,690
it fits someone who has no sense of self

786
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:05,230
who wants power to substitute their self

787
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:06,910
esteem maybe sounds a little too

788
00:39:14,730 --> 00:39:10,690
simplistic but I was up close and

789
00:39:18,089 --> 00:39:14,740
personal with those people so I see what

790
00:39:22,170 --> 00:39:18,099
they do I was trained mind control

791
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:22,180
training to release these power

792
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:27,010
and I can probably could still use them

793
00:39:36,060 --> 00:39:31,330
better the same powers are released if

794
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:36,070
we do the work of integration of mind

795
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:38,560
body integration and that's done through

796
00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:40,960
trauma work it's the the natural drug

797
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:44,350
let's say it's the way it is spiritual

798
00:39:51,780 --> 00:39:48,370
work but the courage is the key without

799
00:39:54,930 --> 00:39:51,790
courage without see if someone remains

800
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:54,940
afraid to afraid if you remain too

801
00:40:00,660 --> 00:39:58,210
afraid you will be you'll remain

802
00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:00,670
attached to the physical world and

803
00:40:07,290 --> 00:40:05,230
you'll remain attached to getting your

804
00:40:10,110 --> 00:40:07,300
value from outer things and we all do

805
00:40:13,410 --> 00:40:10,120
that to some degree so it's for each

806
00:40:18,090 --> 00:40:13,420
person to get out in our own personal

807
00:40:19,830 --> 00:40:18,100
way to go within and to simply face our

808
00:40:23,660 --> 00:40:19,840
own trauma we don't have to think about

809
00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:23,670
Satanism other than perhaps accept that

810
00:40:30,810 --> 00:40:27,100
people are engaging in that but I don't

811
00:40:33,420 --> 00:40:30,820
think we're meant so much you know so

812
00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:33,430
what if you have you know lots of people

813
00:40:36,900 --> 00:40:35,320
have experiences I had a near-death

814
00:40:38,980 --> 00:40:36,910
experience when I was in the network

815
00:40:42,430 --> 00:40:38,990
when I was a child

816
00:40:47,140 --> 00:40:42,440
I went to the other side I needed it I

817
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:47,150
needed a miracle and I it was it was

818
00:40:53,460 --> 00:40:48,880
offered you know the universe is

819
00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:53,470
completely rested from reciprocal and I

820
00:41:01,090 --> 00:40:57,110
use the word God I dare to use the word

821
00:41:06,330 --> 00:41:01,100
God but God is everything so I don't

822
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:06,340
wanna put too much focus on the Satanic

823
00:41:11,980 --> 00:41:08,800
because it's just part of everything

824
00:41:15,730 --> 00:41:11,990
most important is I don't want to give

825
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:15,740
that energy any power I think what

826
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,570
you're saying is tremendously deep and

827
00:41:21,130 --> 00:41:19,040
powerful I don't know if people get it

828
00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:21,140
or not but I get it on so many different

829
00:41:26,410 --> 00:41:23,630
levels when I get it on on a yogic level

830
00:41:28,060 --> 00:41:26,420
you know I mean there's so many awesome

831
00:41:30,460 --> 00:41:28,070
yoga teachers and I've experienced so

832
00:41:32,140 --> 00:41:30,470
many awesome yoga teachers and I love

833
00:41:33,970 --> 00:41:32,150
that you're out there on the mat in

834
00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:33,980
prison and I'm gonna talk about that and

835
00:41:38,650 --> 00:41:36,020
I want to talk about how you show up and

836
00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:38,660
how you show up for those for those

837
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:41,720
incarcerated and how you help them heal

838
00:41:45,609 --> 00:41:43,730
because I think I understand that like

839
00:41:49,330 --> 00:41:45,619
I've spent 30 years on the yoga mat that

840
00:41:51,580 --> 00:41:49,340
I just I get it you know I just I just

841
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:51,590
get it on a level that I'd love to talk

842
00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:53,450
about the mind-body connection and stuff

843
00:41:56,890 --> 00:41:55,369
like that so I'm not always just in my

844
00:41:57,940 --> 00:41:56,900
head like this but I'll tell you the

845
00:42:00,580 --> 00:41:57,950
other way that I did it

846
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:00,590
I spoke with just this last year look at

847
00:42:05,109 --> 00:42:02,330
the wonderful woman named Claire broad

848
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:05,119
and she's a medium in the UK and we were

849
00:42:09,340 --> 00:42:07,310
talking about all her experiences and

850
00:42:11,020 --> 00:42:09,350
her mediumistic experiences in helping

851
00:42:12,220 --> 00:42:11,030
people and all that and I brought up the

852
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:12,230
question with evil because it's been

853
00:42:16,660 --> 00:42:13,670
kind of a hot-button question with me

854
00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:16,670
and she goes look akin to I think in a

855
00:42:22,450 --> 00:42:19,310
way what you're saying she was look for

856
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:22,460
20 years I've encountered this very very

857
00:42:26,140 --> 00:42:23,180
infrequently

858
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:26,150
and the reason is because I always look

859
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:28,010
to the light I always look above and

860
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:29,930
then I related that back to one of my

861
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:32,050
favorite yoga teachers Mickey singer

862
00:42:36,580 --> 00:42:35,210
untethered soul see just a yogi really

863
00:42:38,859 --> 00:42:36,590
you know you can put all these different

864
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:38,869
Oprah Winfrey New Age stuff but he's a

865
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:40,730
yogi and that's what he was from

866
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:42,560
the beginning and he says the secret of

867
00:42:47,260 --> 00:42:45,650
the ascent is to always look up and I

868
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:47,270
love that line I think there's a beauty

869
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:49,340
and a truth to that that we don't have

870
00:42:52,510 --> 00:42:51,770
to dwell in the Satanic we don't have to

871
00:42:55,780 --> 00:42:52,520
dwell in

872
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:55,790
the occulted people who want to access

873
00:42:58,840 --> 00:42:57,770
power through you know you can access

874
00:43:00,340 --> 00:42:58,850
power through all these different ways

875
00:43:02,830 --> 00:43:00,350
so these people are accessing it through

876
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:02,840
this extended realm who cares which is

877
00:43:06,490 --> 00:43:04,490
kind of what you're saying because we

878
00:43:07,870 --> 00:43:06,500
see people who are doing the same thing

879
00:43:09,850 --> 00:43:07,880
whether they're trying to get ahead in

880
00:43:13,150 --> 00:43:09,860
you know this way or that way it's all

881
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:13,160
kind of the same so I hear what you're

882
00:43:18,580 --> 00:43:16,370
saying and I appreciate I just want to

883
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:18,590
put a kind of an exclamation point on

884
00:43:23,410 --> 00:43:21,290
what you're saying is that to emphasize

885
00:43:26,530 --> 00:43:23,420
it too much to stare into the abyss and

886
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:26,540
to focus on the satanic evil forces that

887
00:43:30,910 --> 00:43:28,330
are in play kind of misses the point

888
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:30,920
because again like another great yogi

889
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:32,960
teacher out there Eckhart Tolle says is

890
00:43:36,340 --> 00:43:33,890
it's normal

891
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:36,350
insane you know what's what what we call

892
00:43:43,050 --> 00:43:39,440
normal our day to day life is rather

893
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:43,060
insane when we really step back and look

894
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:45,200
normal everyday life is completely

895
00:43:56,050 --> 00:43:49,040
insane that's why so I rented the

896
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:56,060
prisons to offer what I received because

897
00:44:01,630 --> 00:43:58,400
of my privilege I had this opportunity

898
00:44:06,580 --> 00:44:01,640
to focus on healing so I went to do the

899
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,590
prisons and found people who had been

900
00:44:13,330 --> 00:44:08,480
through similar you know degrees of

901
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:13,340
violence hysteresis myself and and I

902
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:14,720
just wanted to offer what I didn't

903
00:44:23,290 --> 00:44:19,610
foresee because as a child no one came

904
00:44:26,590 --> 00:44:23,300
to give me hope even though I was

905
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:26,600
rescued I didn't have somebody come and

906
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:31,760
say you're gonna be okay and and when I

907
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:39,650
was practicing yoga I didn't meet the

908
00:44:48,330 --> 00:44:44,690
the teacher that was able to teach me

909
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:48,340
we're gonna just so that I could feel

910
00:44:55,270 --> 00:44:53,270
you know I always had to overcome the

911
00:44:58,270 --> 00:44:55,280
whether it was the commanding language

912
00:45:00,520 --> 00:44:58,280
or whether it was the actual kind of

913
00:45:02,830 --> 00:45:00,530
kind of feeling creepy feelings unsafe

914
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:02,840
feelings from you know the vibration of

915
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:05,630
the teachers there was so much to

916
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:07,520
overcome in the way that Yoga is

917
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:12,530
generally practiced in order to have it

918
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:16,970
work for me as a tool because I knew the

919
00:45:23,530 --> 00:45:19,610
first time I stepped on the mat up this

920
00:45:26,650 --> 00:45:23,540
is it this is what I need at the same

921
00:45:30,130 --> 00:45:26,660
time I started practicing meditation

922
00:45:32,290 --> 00:45:30,140
with srf with self-realization

923
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:32,300
fellowship in Yogananda's organization

924
00:45:40,900 --> 00:45:37,610
and I looked at the meditation practice

925
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:40,910
as the real yoga and I looked at the

926
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:44,210
yoga practice on the mat as the physical

927
00:45:51,790 --> 00:45:48,890
component of the real yoga and I guess I

928
00:45:55,540 --> 00:45:51,800
still do fit it's important to be

929
00:45:58,540 --> 00:45:55,550
healthy it's important for energy levels

930
00:46:03,550 --> 00:45:58,550
its input it's so important for physical

931
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:03,560
therapy it's beautiful but the way that

932
00:46:10,300 --> 00:46:05,990
it's taught is just awful so I would

933
00:46:13,530 --> 00:46:10,310
come into the prisons and you know we we

934
00:46:16,770 --> 00:46:13,540
don't use any commands at all nothing

935
00:46:20,910 --> 00:46:16,780
first of all everybody

936
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:20,920
can participate or not and we keep

937
00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:25,359
repeating that this is a time for you

938
00:46:32,700 --> 00:46:29,260
this is not my time here I'm on a

939
00:46:36,690 --> 00:46:32,710
soapbox here this is time for each one

940
00:46:39,810 --> 00:46:36,700
of you to not get yelled at to not get

941
00:46:44,010 --> 00:46:39,820
commanded because that commanding

942
00:46:44,730 --> 00:46:44,020
language is the language of abuse I was

943
00:46:47,849 --> 00:46:44,740
a sex slave

944
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:47,859
I know let me do it there was a couple

945
00:46:54,030 --> 00:46:50,770
things about you man we could we get

946
00:46:56,609 --> 00:46:54,040
docked for such a long time one I am

947
00:46:59,310 --> 00:46:56,619
very grateful that I started my yoga

948
00:47:01,770 --> 00:46:59,320
practice so many years ago because it's

949
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:01,780
changed so much over the years and I

950
00:47:05,099 --> 00:47:03,520
live out here in Southern California and

951
00:47:07,830 --> 00:47:05,109
I just kind of chuckles sometimes when I

952
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:07,840
go into yoga classes and these teachers

953
00:47:12,450 --> 00:47:09,369
are trying to grab power and grab

954
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:12,460
control and do all these other things to

955
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:16,090
teach it's unfortunate because my yoga

956
00:47:21,089 --> 00:47:18,640
teachers even you know my first year

957
00:47:24,089 --> 00:47:21,099
good teacher was a very strong male guy

958
00:47:26,490 --> 00:47:24,099
who was very into the physical but there

959
00:47:31,020 --> 00:47:26,500
was at the same time just this kind of

960
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:31,030
deeper understanding of the paradox that

961
00:47:36,420 --> 00:47:33,520
that were immediately in the mind-body

962
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:36,430
paradox that is and that we're trying to

963
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:39,250
use the physical in this crude way but

964
00:47:42,750 --> 00:47:41,170
we're really accessing something else

965
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:42,760
from the beginning and some I had so

966
00:47:46,980 --> 00:47:45,520
many wonderful of female yoga teachers

967
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:46,990
who were all about the metaphor because

968
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:49,089
it's all metaphoric you know it's like

969
00:47:53,130 --> 00:47:51,010
and I saw a little bit in the videos

970
00:47:56,420 --> 00:47:53,140
that you do have your practice it's all

971
00:48:00,420 --> 00:47:56,430
about connecting this physical with the

972
00:48:02,609 --> 00:48:00,430
metaphorical counter reality that is the

973
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:02,619
spiritual and it is a way of connecting

974
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:04,480
that I think is wonderful I think

975
00:48:08,849 --> 00:48:06,730
there's so much potential with the mat

976
00:48:10,349 --> 00:48:08,859
but I think there are so many subtleties

977
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:10,359
that you just did a beautiful job of

978
00:48:18,540 --> 00:48:14,640
outlining how it can be not fully

979
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:18,550
realized so I don't know I just want to

980
00:48:24,030 --> 00:48:20,410
emphasize that and I guess at some point

981
00:48:26,250 --> 00:48:24,040
it has to lead into the potential for

982
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:26,260
abuse there again because we have this

983
00:48:29,250 --> 00:48:28,690
power structure that we're setting up

984
00:48:31,110 --> 00:48:29,260
and I don't

985
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:31,120
on equate it with the kind of abuse that

986
00:48:38,220 --> 00:48:35,440
you've adored because we cannot but I

987
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:38,230
work with me to victims in the yoga

988
00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:40,240
world particularly also that's another

989
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:43,240
thing that I do it happened to me first

990
00:48:51,630 --> 00:48:47,410
of all and I say that to the degree that

991
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:51,640
we try to teach yoga and fit it in the

992
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:55,810
current power paradigm the hierarchy to

993
00:49:00,270 --> 00:48:57,610
sell it you know it I'm sorry it doesn't

994
00:49:02,190 --> 00:49:00,280
really work well maybe it never did work

995
00:49:05,220 --> 00:49:02,200
you know my first teacher was a disciple

996
00:49:07,380 --> 00:49:05,230
of B ksan Guerin and Iyengar came over

997
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:07,390
to Dallas he was still alive and I did a

998
00:49:14,190 --> 00:49:09,490
class with him he was no shining light

999
00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:14,200
of you know and and Pattabhi Jois is the

1000
00:49:22,590 --> 00:49:19,030
other teacher where I live he's the one

1001
00:49:29,130 --> 00:49:22,600
might well use me so you know and these

1002
00:49:36,750 --> 00:49:29,140
are the two primary yeah right so so we

1003
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:36,760
are blazing yeah cool it was a serial

1004
00:49:42,510 --> 00:49:39,370
sex offender by the way serial sex

1005
00:49:46,740 --> 00:49:42,520
offender I was the first person to write

1006
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:46,750
an article about what had happened and I

1007
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:49,930
really had no idea and now it's turning

1008
00:49:58,620 --> 00:49:54,310
out me thousands of women thousands of

1009
00:50:00,240 --> 00:49:58,630
women were assaulted so yeah no Sh I do

1010
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:00,250
it what do we do with this tradition

1011
00:50:06,780 --> 00:50:03,970
where there is no tradition we are we

1012
00:50:09,060 --> 00:50:06,790
are inventing the tradition right we are

1013
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:09,070
inventing that everyone who shows up on

1014
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:12,490
that mat everyone who is there for the

1015
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:15,570
person who starts crying when they do

1016
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:18,640
the the first time they do triangle and

1017
00:50:23,070 --> 00:50:20,890
their tears are rolling down their face

1018
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:23,080
that they don't understand that is the

1019
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:25,920
practice not the sage on the stage

1020
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:28,720
idiots that we're kind of asked to

1021
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:31,690
perform the same kind of cycle of of

1022
00:50:40,290 --> 00:50:35,200
power displacement kind of thing but

1023
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:40,300
again I can point to trauma the

1024
00:50:43,110 --> 00:50:42,250
perpetrators in the yoga world who need

1025
00:50:49,950 --> 00:50:43,120
the power

1026
00:50:51,660 --> 00:50:49,960
self-esteem with status if you have no

1027
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:51,670
self-esteem so I know what it's like to

1028
00:50:57,780 --> 00:50:54,490
go through life without self-esteem it's

1029
00:51:02,340 --> 00:50:57,790
very very very very difficult and it's

1030
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:02,350
very uncomfortable because I really I I

1031
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:05,710
only started to begin to heal

1032
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:09,760
self-esteem in 2013 13 that was many

1033
00:51:16,530 --> 00:51:12,160
years after I started therapy that I was

1034
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:16,540
49 like beginning of self-esteem 49

1035
00:51:22,860 --> 00:51:19,450
years old without self-esteem life is

1036
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:22,870
very uncomfortable and I see I didn't

1037
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:24,370
have self-esteem so I'm extremely

1038
00:51:30,540 --> 00:51:27,850
uncomfortable the only power that I did

1039
00:51:33,660 --> 00:51:30,550
get addicted to was the power the female

1040
00:51:36,090 --> 00:51:33,670
power you know attracting men looking

1041
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:36,100
good whatever that's what I was addicted

1042
00:51:40,770 --> 00:51:38,050
to that was the thing if I didn't have

1043
00:51:43,350 --> 00:51:40,780
that I would have just crumbled and you

1044
00:51:45,780 --> 00:51:43,360
know dissolves or something other than

1045
00:51:48,270 --> 00:51:45,790
that there was always these choices that

1046
00:51:52,260 --> 00:51:48,280
I could make do I choose the power and

1047
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:52,270
get to belong to the cool Club and get

1048
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:56,050
the pretends or though I choose truth

1049
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:00,160
and so I was submit much too afraid of

1050
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:02,050
power because of my experiences so I

1051
00:52:08,570 --> 00:52:05,200
would choose truth and then I would

1052
00:52:13,230 --> 00:52:08,580
suffer and I would be laughed at or

1053
00:52:16,590 --> 00:52:13,240
whatever but not comfortable at all it's

1054
00:52:17,730 --> 00:52:16,600
very hard and it's not as if when I got

1055
00:52:20,310 --> 00:52:17,740
laughed up and I didn't necessarily

1056
00:52:25,050 --> 00:52:20,320
think that I made a mistake or something

1057
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:25,060
but I would go to therapy go to what is

1058
00:52:34,220 --> 00:52:29,170
underneath that discomfort or what

1059
00:52:38,550 --> 00:52:34,230
whatever occurred whatever emerged my

1060
00:52:41,730 --> 00:52:38,560
reactions my emotions can be traced back

1061
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:41,740
to their psychological origin and once

1062
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:44,410
they're connected once you know courage

1063
00:52:50,070 --> 00:52:46,930
is like a muscle - I keep bringing it to

1064
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:50,080
courage because it's the key to bringing

1065
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:52,690
us out of this physical realm that is

1066
00:52:57,849 --> 00:52:54,410
all about reason and where there's

1067
00:53:00,180 --> 00:52:57,859
room for anything else the courage to

1068
00:53:02,230 --> 00:53:00,190
face the fear of death literally

1069
00:53:04,029 --> 00:53:02,240
emotionally but you're sitting in a

1070
00:53:05,980 --> 00:53:04,039
therapist's office of your but you're by

1071
00:53:09,250 --> 00:53:05,990
yourself or there's someone there that

1072
00:53:10,809 --> 00:53:09,260
you begin to trust or there's someone

1073
00:53:12,460 --> 00:53:10,819
that you just look up to and you just

1074
00:53:14,740 --> 00:53:12,470
expect that they're gonna be like a

1075
00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:14,750
perpetrator but instead they're they're

1076
00:53:20,140 --> 00:53:17,119
kind to you and so it's confusing and

1077
00:53:22,990 --> 00:53:20,150
you start testing them because now that

1078
00:53:24,789 --> 00:53:23,000
part that was never seen or heard or

1079
00:53:27,309 --> 00:53:24,799
understood this is coming to life and

1080
00:53:28,660 --> 00:53:27,319
you just compulsively are annoying this

1081
00:53:30,700 --> 00:53:28,670
person and you expect they're gonna

1082
00:53:32,559 --> 00:53:30,710
reject you and then you're gonna feel

1083
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:32,569
Vinick you're gonna feel that you're not

1084
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:35,359
lovable again and instead they affirm

1085
00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:37,250
something positive about you and

1086
00:53:45,059 --> 00:53:41,030
suddenly it hits you that you are not

1087
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:45,069
only that you are okay on a deeper level

1088
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:49,970
but that you were always okay and that

1089
00:53:55,299 --> 00:53:53,450
what was done to you was actually the

1090
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:55,309
other person stuff and you've been

1091
00:54:00,250 --> 00:53:57,530
carrying it around for them they've been

1092
00:54:01,839 --> 00:54:00,260
trying to carry it around for them yeah

1093
00:54:03,849 --> 00:54:01,849
I mean there's like about a million

1094
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:03,859
things that you just touch down there

1095
00:54:10,990 --> 00:54:10,010
that let me poke at that a little bit

1096
00:54:13,630 --> 00:54:11,000
because that's what I like to do I like

1097
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:13,640
to poke people all right good I like to

1098
00:54:18,849 --> 00:54:15,440
I like to be challenged

1099
00:54:20,589 --> 00:54:18,859
good so number one you're gonna have to

1100
00:54:24,789 --> 00:54:20,599
understand that you've given an entirely

1101
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:24,799
different definition to the meaning of

1102
00:54:29,170 --> 00:54:27,170
the word privilege right so I love the

1103
00:54:30,579 --> 00:54:29,180
way that you say you go into prison

1104
00:54:33,250 --> 00:54:30,589
because you're privileged because most

1105
00:54:35,579 --> 00:54:33,260
people do not accept it would not

1106
00:54:40,690 --> 00:54:35,589
associate your experience your life

1107
00:54:43,029 --> 00:54:40,700
experiences with that's what

1108
00:54:45,010 --> 00:54:43,039
they don't buy into that and see the

1109
00:54:47,559 --> 00:54:45,020
greater reality that we are all

1110
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:47,569
privileged and we're all underprivileged

1111
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:49,970
just like the whole feminine you know

1112
00:54:54,910 --> 00:54:52,160
you're in this suit that you're

1113
00:54:57,460 --> 00:54:54,920
occupying and you're playing the role of

1114
00:54:59,079 --> 00:54:57,470
the costume Fitz and I know the script

1115
00:55:01,599 --> 00:54:59,089
so I'll play the part and you're playing

1116
00:55:03,789 --> 00:55:01,609
your part I'm playing my part but the

1117
00:55:06,039 --> 00:55:03,799
woman may all that kind of stuff gets

1118
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:06,049
mixed up too and then also I think you

1119
00:55:11,050 --> 00:55:08,210
also given do new definition

1120
00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:11,060
to the meaning of the word rescue that

1121
00:55:17,170 --> 00:55:14,420
you were rescued rescued you were on the

1122
00:55:19,870 --> 00:55:17,180
brink of being that in the final stage

1123
00:55:22,810 --> 00:55:19,880
which is murder which so many of the

1124
00:55:25,570 --> 00:55:22,820
people in this situation children both

1125
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:25,580
men and women face the final act as an

1126
00:55:29,290 --> 00:55:26,930
act of murder and you were on the verge

1127
00:55:31,089 --> 00:55:29,300
of that and you were rescued from that

1128
00:55:34,450 --> 00:55:31,099
ok get I get it

1129
00:55:36,370 --> 00:55:34,460
we'll use that term actually I was in

1130
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:36,380
the sense that one of the perpetrators

1131
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:41,119
did negotiate to get me out that moment

1132
00:55:47,020 --> 00:55:43,250
of what would be called weakness in the

1133
00:55:50,530 --> 00:55:47,030
context of the network he did pay with

1134
00:55:52,750 --> 00:55:50,540
his life for that that no kindness goes

1135
00:55:55,329 --> 00:55:52,760
unpunished in that uh-huh there we go

1136
00:55:57,700 --> 00:55:55,339
the other thing I think that the courage

1137
00:55:58,900 --> 00:55:57,710
thing I think is interesting and I

1138
00:56:00,849 --> 00:55:58,910
totally get where you're coming from

1139
00:56:03,130 --> 00:56:00,859
I'll tell you like when I look and I

1140
00:56:05,260 --> 00:56:03,140
rarely ever share this kind of stuff but

1141
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:05,270
like one of the things I did I do an ice

1142
00:56:10,780 --> 00:56:07,609
bath almost every day you know and I I

1143
00:56:12,609 --> 00:56:10,790
learned it from wim HOF who's a yogi you

1144
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:12,619
know eats all this breathing and World

1145
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:14,690
Records he's just a freaking yogi just

1146
00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:17,930
listen to his account but so here's a

1147
00:56:23,140 --> 00:56:20,510
guy who's I think it relates in a way

1148
00:56:24,940 --> 00:56:23,150
his story is his wife is committed

1149
00:56:27,730 --> 00:56:24,950
suicide he has three kids

1150
00:56:29,410 --> 00:56:27,740
he's completely stunned traumatized

1151
00:56:31,690 --> 00:56:29,420
doesn't know what to do he's walking

1152
00:56:34,210 --> 00:56:31,700
along the street and he sees a lake

1153
00:56:35,530 --> 00:56:34,220
frozen over and he goes I'm jumping in I

1154
00:56:38,140 --> 00:56:35,540
don't want to kill myself and I'm

1155
00:56:40,839 --> 00:56:38,150
jumping in and in that moment of that

1156
00:56:43,060 --> 00:56:40,849
freezing cold water that he gets a

1157
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:43,070
moment of clarity where that yacking

1158
00:56:47,980 --> 00:56:45,440
voice that's telling us we're not worthy

1159
00:56:49,359 --> 00:56:47,990
or were super worthy or whatever were

1160
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:49,369
privileged or were a social justice

1161
00:56:54,220 --> 00:56:51,770
warrior whatever the it's telling

1162
00:56:56,770 --> 00:56:54,230
us at the time that mine stops for him

1163
00:56:59,260 --> 00:56:56,780
for a minute and he's able to observe

1164
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:59,270
and he says you know I don't know what

1165
00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:01,520
it is but that's therapy for me and

1166
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:04,250
that's where I'm going and I think that

1167
00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:06,770
that yoga can be that kind of therapy

1168
00:57:11,530 --> 00:57:08,720
for people too I try and bring that to

1169
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:11,540
the to the yoga mat of being of getting

1170
00:57:18,070 --> 00:57:15,530
to that place that I relate more to the

1171
00:57:21,799 --> 00:57:18,080
muscle part than the courage part

1172
00:57:24,170 --> 00:57:21,809
because to me getting to that reality

1173
00:57:26,539 --> 00:57:24,180
I am merely an observer of this

1174
00:57:28,429 --> 00:57:26,549
experience is the reality and I don't

1175
00:57:30,499 --> 00:57:28,439
think you disagree with that at all but

1176
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:30,509
let's play around since you brought up

1177
00:57:39,259 --> 00:57:34,609
the term the discipline of yoga the

1178
00:57:40,999 --> 00:57:39,269
versus the courage of yoga and both well

1179
00:57:43,069 --> 00:57:41,009
I'm not putting down but one word over

1180
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:43,079
another but what about the discipline

1181
00:57:47,929 --> 00:57:45,689
you have to be disciplined then and that

1182
00:57:53,329 --> 00:57:47,939
helps in this regard but go ahead please

1183
00:57:56,359 --> 00:57:53,339
I think of yoga obviously as the whole

1184
00:58:00,140 --> 00:57:56,369
package to lead you to enlightenment

1185
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:00,150
that is to say to expand our

1186
00:58:07,069 --> 00:58:04,170
consciousness to the point where we do

1187
00:58:09,380 --> 00:58:07,079
not need to come back here to school to

1188
00:58:12,499 --> 00:58:09,390
learn our lessons to learn that we are

1189
00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:12,509
not this physical body to fully overcome

1190
00:58:21,259 --> 00:58:14,819
fear of death to fully overcome our

1191
00:58:26,509 --> 00:58:21,269
fears to unite with the the truth the

1192
00:58:31,069 --> 00:58:26,519
greater truer subtler part of our of our

1193
00:58:34,249 --> 00:58:31,079
me that's the purpose of yoga is to find

1194
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:34,259
God and I mean it

1195
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:37,170
sometimes God is a charged word but it's

1196
00:58:43,509 --> 00:58:40,079
to find enlightenment let's say so

1197
00:58:47,239 --> 00:58:43,519
that's that's the purpose of yoga so I

1198
00:58:50,089 --> 00:58:47,249
fit everything that goes into that still

1199
00:58:52,999 --> 00:58:50,099
I think primarily meditation I found

1200
00:58:55,579 --> 00:58:53,009
that to be a more broad scope practice

1201
00:58:59,029 --> 00:58:55,589
let's say it's helped me on a deeper

1202
00:59:04,969 --> 00:58:59,039
level it's helped me make sense of my

1203
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:04,979
story it's helped me see my story and my

1204
00:59:11,059 --> 00:59:08,880
issues in a much larger context that I

1205
00:59:14,890 --> 00:59:11,069
need it otherwise I would have never

1206
00:59:19,609 --> 00:59:14,900
been able to soar to get out sanely and

1207
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:19,619
the physical practice I do I mean I

1208
00:59:25,999 --> 00:59:22,890
don't want it obviously don't down want

1209
00:59:30,589 --> 00:59:26,009
to downplay it but it's really mostly

1210
00:59:34,550 --> 00:59:30,599
for me a physical I mean the best

1211
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:34,560
physical exercise there is with because

1212
00:59:41,090 --> 00:59:39,330
the breathing and let's stop and pause

1213
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:41,100
for a minute on that and I want you to

1214
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:44,010
speak to you have a deep understanding

1215
00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:47,040
of this stuff Annika and everything

1216
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:50,910
you're sharing is is so meaningful on so

1217
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:52,410
many different levels I hope I can put

1218
00:59:55,820 --> 00:59:54,450
this interview together in a way that

1219
00:59:58,190 --> 00:59:55,830
makes sense to people

1220
01:00:03,140 --> 00:59:58,200
what is your deeper understanding of

1221
01:00:06,140 --> 01:00:03,150
that mind body spirit connection as it

1222
01:00:08,030 --> 01:00:06,150
physically takes place on a yoga mat

1223
01:00:10,430 --> 01:00:08,040
because I think a lot of people as

1224
01:00:13,550 --> 01:00:10,440
you're alluding to they go they do a

1225
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:13,560
studio yoga class or they encounter yoga

1226
01:00:20,420 --> 01:00:17,610
and they get it but they don't get it on

1227
01:00:23,060 --> 01:00:20,430
that deeper level well again Yoga is so

1228
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:23,070
broad that I think it works on every

1229
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:28,050
level so initially for me it helped me

1230
01:00:33,590 --> 01:00:30,930
be inside have my consciousness be

1231
01:00:36,110 --> 01:00:33,600
actually in my body I had no body

1232
01:00:38,450 --> 01:00:36,120
consciousness because of the abuse so I

1233
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:38,460
was completely dissociated from my body

1234
01:00:44,780 --> 01:00:41,370
and brought me back into my body brought

1235
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:44,790
my focus my consciousness back in my

1236
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:46,410
body you already mentioned a little bit

1237
01:00:51,890 --> 01:00:49,650
about your work with incarcerated people

1238
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,900
people who are in prison and bringing

1239
01:00:56,990 --> 01:00:53,760
yoga and the unique challenges and

1240
01:00:59,810 --> 01:00:57,000
opportunities associated with that what

1241
01:01:02,930 --> 01:00:59,820
do you think is typically going on that

1242
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:02,940
is most misunderstood about someone who

1243
01:01:08,990 --> 01:01:05,970
sits down on a yoga mat maybe for the

1244
01:01:11,090 --> 01:01:09,000
first time and experiences something but

1245
01:01:14,540 --> 01:01:11,100
doesn't understand what the larger

1246
01:01:17,780 --> 01:01:14,550
context is so tell us about that and how

1247
01:01:19,850 --> 01:01:17,790
that fits in with this non-for-profit

1248
01:01:23,210 --> 01:01:19,860
business that you have liberation prison

1249
01:01:27,050 --> 01:01:23,220
yoga I think what I find the most

1250
01:01:32,890 --> 01:01:27,060
beautiful part of the work is not only

1251
01:01:35,020 --> 01:01:32,900
to help people to relax to and help

1252
01:01:37,150 --> 01:01:35,030
people just through the

1253
01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:37,160
which helping people understand that

1254
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:39,920
this is a time to just be that they

1255
01:01:44,410 --> 01:01:41,570
don't have to do anything they don't

1256
01:01:49,180 --> 01:01:44,420
have to be anyone that this is a time to

1257
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:49,190
just be and that can be whatever there

1258
01:01:53,830 --> 01:01:51,850
is complete freedom in that to

1259
01:01:56,410 --> 01:01:53,840
experience a little bit of sense of

1260
01:02:00,760 --> 01:01:56,420
freedom of this relief of all the

1261
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:00,770
pressures not only from prison life but

1262
01:02:06,970 --> 01:02:03,920
all pressures each one of our classes

1263
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:06,980
yes there can be a physical aspect to it

1264
01:02:15,340 --> 01:02:11,690
depending but you know there's focuses

1265
01:02:19,030 --> 01:02:15,350
for me to help people feel completely

1266
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:19,040
comfortable on the mat and safe so

1267
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:21,530
knowing that there's nothing that I say

1268
01:02:30,310 --> 01:02:26,810
that they have to do and that um we're

1269
01:02:36,250 --> 01:02:30,320
going I'm going to guide a meditation

1270
01:02:41,580 --> 01:02:36,260
and this is always speaking to the self

1271
01:02:43,570 --> 01:02:41,590
as the pure light within the

1272
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:43,580
consciousness the pure consciousness

1273
01:02:51,430 --> 01:02:46,480
beyond the body beyond circumstances

1274
01:02:56,830 --> 01:02:51,440
beyond the physical world which informs

1275
01:03:01,060 --> 01:02:56,840
us and it's just provides some kind of

1276
01:03:04,150 --> 01:03:01,070
opportunity to go in and to tap into

1277
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:04,160
that source and to feel the nurturing

1278
01:03:11,470 --> 01:03:08,240
and the sense of safety that comes from

1279
01:03:13,630 --> 01:03:11,480
that there's a wonderful grounding part

1280
01:03:16,270 --> 01:03:13,640
of it isn't it because it is so physical

1281
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:16,280
Annika thank you so so much this has

1282
01:03:20,050 --> 01:03:18,050
been just a wonderful chat for me I've

1283
01:03:23,110 --> 01:03:20,060
really enjoyed it for people who want to

1284
01:03:24,700 --> 01:03:23,120
learn more about your work and follow

1285
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:24,710
what you're doing and maybe help your

1286
01:03:29,830 --> 01:03:28,130
cause at liberation prison yoga but also

1287
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:29,840
want to find out more about your help

1288
01:03:35,170 --> 01:03:33,110
and advocacy and helping for children

1289
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:35,180
who are enduring these kind of horrible

1290
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:37,370
crimes where should they go to learn

1291
01:03:43,110 --> 01:03:38,770
more yes

1292
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:43,120
hi my website is Annika Lucas calm great

1293
01:03:47,820 --> 01:03:44,650
well we'll definitely have a link to

1294
01:03:51,150 --> 01:03:47,830
that in the show and again thank you so

1295
01:03:53,700 --> 01:03:51,160
much nice to meet you you're such a

1296
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:53,710
wonderful embodiment of that year the

1297
01:03:58,860 --> 01:03:56,130
spirit I really appreciate it

1298
01:04:00,750 --> 01:03:58,870
thanks again to Annika Lucas for joining

1299
01:04:03,030 --> 01:04:00,760
me today on skeptic Oh the one question

1300
01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:03,040
I tee up from this interview and it's

1301
01:04:05,940 --> 01:04:04,720
the question I keep drilling it and I'm

1302
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:05,950
not really

1303
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:08,170
I think totally connecting with people

1304
01:04:13,890 --> 01:04:10,570
on this but I'm going to keep counting

1305
01:04:16,530 --> 01:04:13,900
on it is does evil exist in the extended

1306
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:16,540
consciousness realm so we can listen to

1307
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:19,690
rust is our awesome guy and he's saying

1308
01:04:24,300 --> 01:04:22,240
hey these guys are Satanists and they're

1309
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:24,310
practicing it which has these crazy

1310
01:04:28,860 --> 01:04:27,010
parallels with like dr. Hugh Urban Ohio

1311
01:04:31,890 --> 01:04:28,870
State University but even when you hear

1312
01:04:34,020 --> 01:04:31,900
Annika as beautiful as she is and

1313
01:04:36,590 --> 01:04:34,030
speaking about this she's still talking

1314
01:04:39,180 --> 01:04:36,600
about it from this kind of secular

1315
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:39,190
psychological angle which is a huge part

1316
01:04:46,380 --> 01:04:42,250
of it no doubt but doesn't it make a

1317
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:46,390
difference that they are actively trying

1318
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:50,290
to connect with beings entity spirits in

1319
01:04:56,540 --> 01:04:53,250
the extended consciousness realm and

1320
01:05:01,110 --> 01:04:56,550
asking those spirits those entities to

1321
01:05:05,030 --> 01:05:01,120
help them in these horrible evil deeds

1322
01:05:08,460 --> 01:05:05,040
they are committing in this world

1323
01:05:12,180 --> 01:05:08,470
doesn't that matter it sure as heck

1324
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:12,190
seems to matter to me love to hear your

1325
01:05:15,690 --> 01:05:12,910
thoughts on it

1326
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:15,700
as usual the place to do it is the

1327
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:17,530
skeptical forum where you can connect

1328
01:05:22,290 --> 01:05:19,690
with other people who like to talk about

1329
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:22,300
this stuff if shirt is skeptical website

1330
01:05:27,420 --> 01:05:24,010
you can download all these shows for

1331
01:05:30,180 --> 01:05:27,430
free listen to them no ads or anything

1332
01:05:32,610 --> 01:05:30,190
like that just see if they you think

1333
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:32,620
there is important this I think they are

1334
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:35,890
and pass them along to whoever you think

1335
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:38,710
needs to hear about this stuff thanks so

1336
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:41,850
much for joining me it's so terrific

1337
01:05:45,810 --> 01:05:44,410
having you along for the ride and I

1338
01:05:47,970 --> 01:05:45,820
can't tell you how much I enjoy when I

1339
01:05:52,190 --> 01:05:47,980
hear people who say I listen to the show

1340
01:05:55,220 --> 01:05:52,200
and it got me thinking or it may be bad

1341
01:05:57,170 --> 01:05:55,230
or whatever I just love the fact that

1342
01:06:00,530 --> 01:05:57,180
this magical thing happens where I talk

1343
01:06:03,650 --> 01:06:00,540
into this microphone alone in my little

1344
01:06:06,230 --> 01:06:03,660
room here and I somehow connect with you